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I'm finishing a Tele body (ash). I prepped the surface and filled with Z-Poxy and sprayed shellac over the surface prior to spraying McFadden's clear...my 1st McFadden's experience. I sprayed the first 2 coats of lacquer over a week ago ant it is still very tacky. The conditions for spraying and drying were about 70*F and about 40% -45%.

This was from an unopened quart can I purchased from WoodFinishing Supplies about 6 months ago...stored in my basement. The surface looks smooth and uniform but it just isn't curing. I used a Preval sprayer...could the propellant be reacting with the lacquer? Any other ideas would be appreciated.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

JJ....

Take some of the lacquer and put it on some glass (spray it if you can) and wait a day or so and see if it's still tacky, if it is the you have a bad batch. McFaddens should be dry to the touch in a couple of hours (about 4 depending on the weather), it's not cured by any means but should not be tacky either.

I am assuming you are using fairly light coats too?

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Hi JJ, how long did you let the Z Poxy dry before spraying shellac and how long did you let the shellac dry before spraying your first coat of McFadden?

Also check the can, if the lacquer is nitro thats fine, but if it's catalized laquer ,and you did not mix in a hardener, it will not dry.   

Paul...The coats are light. I'll try the glass test.

Addam... The zpoxy was at least 2 days old before spraying shellac. The shellac was on at least 1 day before spraying McFadden's. It's straight nitro lacquer...not the catalyzed stuff.

One other observation...before using, there was quite a bit of settling on the bottom of the can. I mixed it thoroughly but I don't know if that amount of precipitate is normal.

I plan to call McFadden's but wanted to get your opinions and experience first.

I suspect that I'm going to need to remove the soft, tacky lacquer. I'm expecting that it will not sand very easily...any tips as to the best method of removal?

Thanks for your help.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

lots and lots of rags and lacquer thinner, there's just no good way. Once it's off let it dry and then recheck your epoxy to make sure it's still in one piece with no gaps...

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Hey Addam! Welcome to the OLF!

Lancek

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

JJ, something sure sounds wrong. I've never seen any kind of sediment in the bottom of McFadden's. Are you using gloss or Satin? The satin does have a flattener in it and should be stirred before using.

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Funny, I was about to say the same thing. I have sprayed around 5000 gal. of McFaddens gloss over the last 10 or so years and I have never seen that.

Lance, it's nice to be here.

   Lacquer can spoil. It does happen sometime. Call your dealer . At least you may get your money back. If lacquer is too old or gets frozen , as sometimes happens during shipment this can ruin it.
    I hate to say this but your only recouse will be strip and start over. my first batch of Mcfaddens did the same thing. I use behlens but will use Mcfaddens again. I just make sure I buy it where they sell alot of it
john hall
blues creek guitars.

I had a similar experience with a tele neck. It was a 70's neck. I sprayed Behlens using Prevale. It dried o.k. but never got realy hard...drove me and the customer crazy. . I hate to say it's the preval but that was the only common denominator. I sprayed and I striped and re-sprayed using a new can as well. Finaly I just french polish the neck( it was before I had the new spray eq.)and got it nice and slick/hard. I will never use the aeresol stuff again.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Thanks guys...it looks like I may have a defective batch. Another lesson learned the hard way...test before using!!!

Dave...It's labeled as gloss. I guess the sediment would have been a good clue if I had a little more experience with the product!

I bought a gallon (4 quarts) from WoodFinishingSupplies.com about 6 months ago...that would have made it in the dead of winter! (You could be right about the freezing, John!) I tried contacting them and found that they went out of business last month.

So, I'll contact McFadden's and get their take on the problem and get back to you...stay tuned.

The good news...
...I only have 2 light coats on the body to remove
...I have lots of clean rags
...It's warm outside where I can do the stripping
...And as always, I learned something important

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

The only time I have seen sediment in Nitro was if it was sanding sealer. McFaddens nitro is crystal golden clear. The freshest nitro comes straight from the factory in 5 gallon cans

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

So I am just about ready to place my first order for Mc Fadden's from the factory. They recommended I should buy either 4 - 1 gallon containers = 1 crate, or 1 5 - gallon can. I figured as I will not use it really fast so I had thought about the 4 containers, my thinking was that it might keep better.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Josh, where are you getting the lacquer from. Is McFaddens in the US? And will you have to pay a large environmental tax just to get it across the boarder, if they will even ship internationally?
I have wanted to try the Mcfaddens but didn't bother ordering any (or even calling the factory) because of the normal shipping issues.

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Rod

I contacted McFaddens USA yesterday and they said they would ship it to me. It will cost an arm and a leg to get it here but I would like to give it a try. I figure that a few gallons of the stuff should keep me going for some time since I'm only completing a few instruments every few months. I can get 2 gallons of McFaddens for less than 1 gallon of KTM-9 which is what I am using now (well after to factor in the shipping and environmental tax??? it won't be any cheaper). I want to give Nitro a try and it seems to be the industry standard. I figure that I may also be able to sell some of it to come of my builder friends here which would help with the cost.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Be sure and pick up some Butyl Acetate (I use Sherwin Williams). Mix it 10%-20% in the nitro for exceptional flow out. You can spray nitro straight from the can but the Butyl makes it flow out like hot butter.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Butyl Acetate, eh?

Can I get that stuff anywhere?

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Try a local Sherwin Williams or most any paint dealer.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Thanks Tim,

I'm not sure if we have Sherwin Williams here in Canada (is it a chain of stores or a line of products?), but I will check around the local paint dealers and I'm sure I can find it there.

JoshJosh H38602.3613888889

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Josh,

take a look at Serwin Williams here

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

A scraper works fairly well for removing lacquer and isn't quite as messy as stripper or lacquer thinner. I've become somewhat of an expert at removing lacquer and starting over.

JJ, I had the same problem. I bought mine from Wood Finishing Supplies about the same time you did. I sprayed 2 guitars with it and after a month, they were still sticky. I finally had to scrape all that mess off and refinish with Behlen's, which I found locally. I bet they got a bad batch.

Rod

Thanks, two of those dealers are within an 1 1/2 drive.

Josh

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Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

Josh,
I would reccomend using all products from the same supplier, if possible. This way you can be sure everything is 100% compatible.
I am not sure if Mcfaddens sells butyl but they must sell retarder.
I switched from Mcfaddens to Mohawk(Behlens) and use there reducer and retarder-5% or so to help flow-out.
Brad

Brad, do you use the mohawk instrument lacquer with the reducer?
there is a Mohawk in Vancouver close to me, but I have not heard of anyone using their instrument lacquer so have not tried it.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson